VIEWPOINT Wanted: A New Kind of College Business Program A Carnegie Foundation study argues that undergraduate business programs must do a better job of giving students a strong grounding in the liberal arts
Bernie Madoff: Lecturing MBAs on Ethics? If you can believe Bernie Madoff—and most people would not, for good reason—b-school students may soon be hearing the cautionary tale of none other than, you guessed it, Bernie Madoff.
ForumWatch: How to Overcome a Low GPA One question that comes up often when people are applying to business school is how a low undergraduate GPA will influence a candidateâ?Ts chances of getting into a top program.
B-School Prof Creates Eco-Friendly Gown Recyclable graduation gowns may soon be the latest trend of the commencement season, thanks to a business professor from the Netherlands.
BEST BUSINESS SCHOOLS 2010 Business School, Explained Is business school on your horizion? If so, get answers to all your questions on admissions, careers, and B-school life from the experts
B-SCHOOL FORUMS
Visit BW Online's interactive forums for wide-ranging discussions about management education. Search through over 1,359,000 posts for topics that interest you. Join in today! Here are a few samples of recent messages:
Getting into Business Schools — Know This Ranking?
From: HaveAQuestion To: All
I found this ranking thanks to a chat with one of the HR head of a swiss IB (one of the two big names) as he told me that it is the one he considers when judging MBAs (because it is based on recruiters). He added that in his opinion, it matches general global brand perception (which is important to him because the bank is global) whereas BW/US News are US-centric and FT is UK-centric (hence LBE at rank 1). In any case, top names are always the same but order is a bit different and honestly quite realistic (even if i'm heading to GSB, i must admit that GSB behind Kellogg can make sense on a global scale) :
1-Harvard Business School United States $112500 908 725 4 2-University of Pennsylvania: Wharton United States $110000 862 720 5 3-Northwestern University: Kellogg United States $94349 427 700 5 4-Stanford University United States$118793 370 726 4 5-Columbia Business School United States $106246 737 713 5 6-University of Chicago: Booth United States $102525 550 710 5 7-MIT: Sloan United States $100540 746 710 5 8-UC Berkeley: Haas United States $107451 545 718 5 9-Univeristy of Michigan: Ross United States $98720 486 701 5 10-Duke University: Fuqua United States $102056 425 700 5
Anybody knows about it? Any comments from our MBA advisors? The methodolgy appears indeed quite convincing to me because it is abour recruiters, not satisfaction or other soft data points.
In order to produce the QS Global 200 Top Business Schools, we focus on experienced HR and line managers at MBA recruiting companies; respondents from each company are asked a series of questions about MBA recruiting for the previous year and the forthcoming year. These questions relate to the hiring activity of participating companies in the country or region for which the respondent has recruiting responsibility. Employer responses to these questions provide information on the following:
A. MBA recruitment trends
B. MBA salaries and compensation trends
C. Global business school ratings
D. Global business school ratings in specialist areas
From: teenachan To: HaveAQuestion
Its ok, not great. Obviously Stanford is too low, Columbia too high among other mistakes. US News remains by far the best reflection of reality and consensus opinion.
From: mEEchigan04 To: HaveAQuestion
It's pretty reasonable... Consider this from the blurb about the rankings: "Less than 20 employer votes separate the scores of 10 other North American schools in this top cluster: Chicago, MIT, Berkeley, Michigan Ross, Duke, UCLA, NYU, Yale, Tuck, and Richard Ivey."
Most schools in the top 15 are so close together that there is bound to be variations year to year and across different sources. The main point is that the top 5 are always the same and the schools in the top 15 rarely change.
From: sacred To: mEEchigan04
US News is the only ranking worth reading.
From: WernerGunther To: sacred
Is it really that good? Personally among the TOP10 i would never go to Sloan, Tuck, Stern or Haas even if they are high in that ranking simply because before i started to have interest in MBAs i didn't even know that these MBA merely exists, and 95% of the people i asked in my company are like me... Of course we might be retarded... On the other hand, i knew of the 6 others. So if i say to a recruiter : "I went to Haas" and he/she says "What is it?" then i definitely don't want to go there even if it it number 6 in US-News ranking...
From: mEEchigan04 To: sacred
Why? I tend to look at US News least. Regardless, all rankings are pretty much the same schools in a slightly different order. The schools in the top 15 are all excellent and reasonable minds can disagree about which is slightly better.
Also, the rankings aren't hard facts. Merely a tool one should use to decide where to apply. Beyond that it gets a lot more subjective - like fit.
From: LTP To: WernerGunther
Werner, I think it's safe to say that if you tell someone who recruits MBAs that you went to Haas and they don't know what Haas is that you probably don't want to work there.
Considering that you're an international applicant, I would imagine that in three of the four cases you cited you would be better off saying you went to MIT, NYU, or Berkely, as opposed to using the B-School specific name. Dartmouth is an extremely well known school in the US, but I don't think that the name is as well known outside the US...and that's coming from someone that really likes Tuck.
Good luck.
From: WernerGunther To: LTP
@LTP
Your post is quite fair. I agree that MIT for exemple is famous here but it is seen as an engineering school so if you say that you've studied business there, it won't be that well considered.
But in the end all these schools are great. As you say, as an international applicant i have different criteria and worldwide brand is important to me, reason why i aggree with HaveAQuestion when he says this ranking matches international views and this rankings corresponds the most to what i think about relative ranks.
From: FrancescaBW To: HaveAQuestion
Hi,
I have to agree with those who pointed out that the rankings from any publication or organization should be viewed as a tool and not cold hard fact. While the rankings give you a good sense of the caliber of a particular program and how it's viewed by others, you must also consider your own personal needs and preferences when deciding the best schools to which you should apply. To better understand how to use the rankings in your research and decision making, you can read this story about it - http://www.businessweek.com/bschools/content/mar2011/bs20110325_130657.htm
It features advice from admissions directors at top programs and popular admissions consultants. Good luck to all!
Best, Francesca
Getting into Business Schools — Which B-Schools Are Associated Withâ?¦?
From: gatorman1122 To: All
Hi everyone,
I was just browsing through some of the schools and the specific organizations that hire their graduates. I did not see a lot of science-based companies. I have a science/chemistry background and plan on applying to b-school in a few years.
Which top schools (i.e., their graduates) are highly associated with pharmaceutical/biotechnology companies (e.g., Merck, Bristol-Meyers, Amgen, etc)?
Thanks for the help. This forum is awesome by the way.
From: essaysnark To: gatorman1122
Don't know much offhand about which biotech/science companies frequent which schools. Your current approach of reviewing employment reports is the best way to get that info.
The only bschool we've heard of that specifically offers a "biotech" MBA specialization is Cambridge Judge.
Lots of other bschools have healthcare programs. Vanderbilt is well regarded in healthcare, though it's not the best brand of overall MBA. UNC Kenan-Flagler is in the same category. Duke and Yale have specific concentrations in healthcare; the MBA-E at Yale is a separate track from their "main" MBA, which shows that they're putting focus on this industry. There's also joint degrees like the MPH/MBA (public health) at Tuck and Berkeley, and Booth has something about health administration/policy.
Many bschools offer joint degrees with their university's other graduate schools, so you could also look at Harvard, Stanford, etc., and design your own degree with their school of medicine or whatever. Healthcare is such a fast-growing industry that there are more and more options in education all the time.
Good luck with it! EssaySnark
From: gatorman1122 To: essaysnark
Thank you so much for your reply, EssaySnark.
I just started reading your blog, and there's a ton of useful info!
From: BosMBAasap To: gatorman1122
The top MBA programs in the health care industry (including pharma and biotech) are Wharton and Duke.
Business Schools — International Students
From: jawbreaker To: All
Im 21 years old.
So Im planning for MBA in the US. My GMAT is 610 TOEFL 108. GPA 3.25. Ive received admission from St. John's University Peter J. Tobin School Of Business in New York, University of Tampa-Sykes College Of Business in Tampa,Florida, Suffolk University Sawyer School of Business in Boston,MA and Scranton University in Scranton,PA.
Im planning on doing MBA specialization in finance or international business. Which of the above mentioned should be selected/avoided.
Thanks for help in advance
From: G3XL To: jawbreaker
To let you know, I came out of Tobin, a while back, so I may seem a bit biased in the post (you may want to contact me via private messaging about certain post-graduate instances, circumstances, and realized opportunities - based on the quality of reactions on this forum, some information is too sensitive to post here). With that said, you are in an unusual position because many will tell you to gain some work experience first and apply to much higher ranked programs - and this is a conventional and very sound strategy. But I'm going to make an assumption that you may not have received all your letters back from the various bschools you may have applied to or even applied to others outside those mentioned. Keep this rule of thumb in mind, although it's not set in stone (and I've even confirmed this with a friend from MIT Sloan): Once you're operating outside the top 20 or 25 business schools, the geographic location and business infrastructures of schools considered become increasingly decisive factors. With that said, every business school on your list with the exception of Tobin can be eliminated. Tobin has an extensive study abroad curriculum with not only its Rome campus, but other strategic partnerships that allow students to travel to different countries and experientially learn cultural aspects of international finance and foreign affairs, while accruing those credits. It's NYC connections with asset management firms are steep for a school that's not nationally ranked. There's also an Asset Management Program where select students manage an active portfolio traded in real financial markets at the school's Financial Information Lab (The fund's overall endowment is said to be $5 million). If you decide to go to Tobin, you will need to take advantage of internship opportunities early to develop your resume.
There are some downsides that you need to be aware of regarding your choices. Columbia, NYU, and Cornell are the three top MBA programs in NYS in every ranking publication worldwide (UR's Simon is also ranked well). And they get quite a number of grads into investment banking (IB), which recruits heavily out of the top 5 or so bschools. Columbia gets by far the most grads into IB (on par with Harvard, Stanford, Wharton, and U Chicago's Booth, etc.), while NYU's program in finance is considered by many to be equal to or on par with those of Wharton and Chicago. I know a few grads from schools like Fordham and St. John's who've gone into IB and Private Equity (PE), but the numbers are so small that in nearly every circumstance these individuals had prior extensive experience in finance, which weighed much more heavily in their success. Top bschools have had a tradition of preparing their graduates for entry into IB, MC (Management Consulting), VC, PE, and even M&A (Mergers and Acquisitions). I'm seeing a bit more divergence towards M&A, which is expected, especially since Sarbanes-Oxley was instituted primarily to prevent future Enrons. The point here is that St. John's appears to be focusing its efforts on becoming recognized in investment management (Buyside), as it develops relationships with more asset management firms across the financial services space. This may allow it some branding opportunities without trying to get in the way of Sterns preeminent finance leadership and CBS's (Columbia Business School) dominance in IB recruiting.
Even though St. John's Tobin owns The School of Risk Management and has two programs in Investment Management and Enterprise Risk Management, I don't believe these are its strongest areas academically. Tobin grads tend to do very well in industry-based sectors related to marketing, executive management, and international business (marketing and management are also inclusive of advertising and interactive media herein). You can do very well moving forward, but you still have other options: You can do a GMAT retake and move your score into the 650+ range and push to get into NYU Stern or Cornell's Johnson after accruing relevant and progressive work experience (usually 4-5yrs+). Or you can apply directly UR's Simon, which may consider you, since they have a special undergrad/MBA program for students with very little work experience (but you should contact the school first to verify). Or you could go to Tobin, major in either finance or international business, get internship experience early, and position oneself to move directly into asset management or related financial services and accrue towards those higher earnings starting earlier in one's career.
Hope this helps, G3XL
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It's not easy working in career services these days. A few years back, landing jobs for a graduating class of MBAs was more or less a matter of touching base with the same big banks and consulting firms that always recruited the lion's share of new graduates, and always would. Or maybe not. As Oliver Staley reports, these days recruiting season means reaching out to startups, nonprofits, and other nontraditional employers who don't typically recruit on campus, and spending more time connecting each student with the right organization, even if it means getting on a plane and taking them there yourself.
To be sure, much of this was driven by the financial crisis, which forced MBA grads to think creatively about their careers as banking and consulting jobs dried up. But a lot of it is generational. Members of the millennial generation have a different take on the MBA. They don't view it as a ticket to a gold-plated future but as a tool to help fix an ailing world. Will their idealism diminish when that proves to be infinitely more difficult, and less profitable, than they think it is? Maybe so. But at least they will have helped a few people along the way, which is more than you can say for many of their predecessors.
Louis Lavelle Business Schools Editor Bloomberg Businessweek
UCLA Anderson: Admissions Q&A MBA Admissions Director Mae Jennifer Shores explains what UCLA's Anderson school has to offer and what it takes to get in
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The Best Undergraduate B-Schools Undergrad business programs are getting MBA-like respect, and competition to get into them is hotter than ever. Here's how the top schools stack up
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